01-24-2000 Special Meeting188
MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY
COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS
HELD IN THE ELEANOR ROHRBACH MEMORIAL COUNCIL
CHAMBERS, DES PLAINES CIVIC CENTER, MONDAY,
JANUARY 24, 2000
CALL TO ORDER: The SPECIAL meeting of the City Council of the City of Des.
ROLL CALL:
Plaines, Illinois, was called to order by Acting Mayor
Anthony W. Arredia at 7:10 p.m. in the Eleanor Rohrbach
Memorial Council Chambers, Des Plaines Civic Center on
Monday, January 24, 2000.
Roll call
Beauvais,
Petersen.
indicated the following aldermen present:
Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad, Becker, Smith,
Alderman Brookman was absent.
Also present were: City Manager Douthwaite, City Attorney Wiltse, Fire
Chief Farinella, Police Chief Sturlini and City Engineer Oakley; and
Board of Fire and Police Commissioners
Dan Kisslinger and Randy Johnson
RULES AND
REGULATIONS/
BD. OF FIRE
& POLICE
COMMISSION.:
Item Tabled
on 1/17/00
ACTING MAYOR ARREDIA DECLARED THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WAS
NOW RESOLVED INTO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
LEGAL & LICENSING Alderman Beauvais, Chair
Moved by Elstner, seconded by Smith, to take from the
table the Rules & Regulations Amendments for the Board
of Fire and Police Commissioners, which was tabled on
January 17, 2000 to March 6, 2000.
Alderman Sayad stated that he would be voting no on
taking this matter from the table; he feels very strongly
that because of the problems with communication, that
this matter should be held until March 6, 2000, to give
the proper notification to all parties; he takes this
matter very seriously and we need more information; we
are trying to change rules at the 11th hour ; we have to
be fair to our employees; this action is out of order .
Alderman Elstner asked what is the role of the City
Council.
City Attorney Wiltse stated that the City Council can
ratify the Rules & Regulations of the Board of Fire and
Police Commissioners that are consistent with State
Statute, but the City Council has no authority to change
these rules.
Alderman Becker stated that it is his understanding that
the Board is meeting down the hall making changes to the
Rules & Regulations; he feels uncomfortable discussing
something when he doesn't have all the information.
Alderman Sayad stated that if the aldermen are not being
given all the information, he wonders if the rank and
file are being given all the information; he would like
to see a corrected copy given to all the men so that they
can have a meeting with their own people within a
reasonable time and discuss it.
Alderman Christiansen asked if the City Council had the
right or authority to make any changes to these rules.
City Attorney Wiltse said no as along as they are
consistent with State Statute.
BD. OF FIRE
AND POLICE
(Cont'd.)
RECESS:
PAGE TWO
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Alderman Sayad questioned whether the rank and file were
notified when the meetings of the Board on December 7,
1999 and January 10, 2000, were held. City Attorney
Wiltse said yes and gave the process that was done for
notification.
Alderman Sayad stated that the aldermen agreed that this
matter should be tabled to March 6, 2000 , and that i s
when it should be discussed.
Alderman Beauvais stated that there has been much mis-
communication and no communication since she tabled this
matter; all the aldermen agreed and then the next day she
found out that the test would have to be postponed; she
was asked to have this meeting tonight so that the tests
could go forward; a majority of the aldermen wanted this
meeting tonight, but she stated for the record that she
doesn't think this matter should be in front of City
Council at all; the Board has the authority to make the
rules and regulations for the two departments; we cannot
change anything; we have no voting power for changes .
Alderman Smith stated that he agreed with Alderman
Beauvais that the City Council should not be discussing
this matter in any depth because the decision is not
ours, but he does think it should be before the City
Council to ratify any changes the Board makes; we have
done it in the past.
Motion declared carried on Alderman Elstner's motion.
Alderman Sayad voted no and asked that the record show
his no vote was because he feels the matter was tabled
to March 6, 2000, and that is when it should be discussed
so that proper notification could be given to everyone.
Alderman Becker stated that his yes vote was so that
there could be full discussion; he has a lot of
questions.
Moved by Christiansen, seconded by Beauvais , that there
be a five (5) minute recess. Motion declared carried.
The Committee of the Whole recessed at 7:30 p.m.
The Committee of the Whole reconvened at 7:42 p.m.
Chairman Dan Kisslinger of the Board of Fire and Police
Commissioners introduced Commissioner Randy Johnson, and
stated that the other commissioner, Eldon Burk, was out
of town.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that they did give adequate
notice of their meetings; they are not rushing things;
these changes have been in the works--being formulated ,
for the past three (3) years; every three (3) years the
rules are reviewed and modified if necessary. Chairman
Kisslinger stated that there was a very light turn out
for their meeting on December 7, 2 o o O; a variety of
subjects were discussed; the two (2) employees that were
present did not come up with anything to modify any of
proposed changes.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that one of the things
discussed was the point system of 100: 50 points for the
written examination; 15 points for the respective Chief's
recommendation; 25 points for the Commissioners'
recommendation and 10 points for seniority. Chairman
Kisslinger stated that the Board does not know the bulk
of the department people and prefer not to, since they
have to evaluate these people; why should the Board, who
do not know these people (and don't want to) have more
points than the respective Chiefs who do.
BD. OF FIRE
AND POLICE
(Cont'd.)
190
1/24/00
PAGE THREE
Chairman Kisslinger stated that the Board revised the
points to give 50 points for the written examination; 22
points for the respective Chief's recommendation; 22
points for the Commissioners' recommendation and 6 points
for seniority.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that Commissioner Burk
recommended to give an employee the option of going back
one permanent grade if he or she finds that they cannot
do the job for whatever reason, rather than get fired ;
the Board would prefer not to fire anyone . The Board has
been told that this doesn't set well with certain peopl e ;
this can affect their pension rights , pension dollars .
Chairman Kisslinger stated that Board also changed the
passing grade from 75 to 70, to allow more applicants to
be considered; the smartest candidate is not always the
best candidate; however, if they do not pass at the 70
grade, it would be the end of their promotional
possibilities for that cycle.
Chairman Kisslinger went through the Rules and
Regulations page by page and pointed out the changes.
Alderman Sayad stated that he thinks more points should
be taken away from the Board. Commissioner Johnson
stated that the oral testing is much more involved than
it used to be which includes outside testing agencies ;
the Chiefs' need more points to get the right people that
they would be working with .
Alderman Sayad stated that all the officers should be
evaluated at the end of every year and then gone over
with the officer; those reports should have value; if
someone has a problem, they should not be demoted; he
thinks that would be an injustice; the yearly evaluation
should merit some points. Alderman Sayad asked why these
changes are necessary; is something broken; this demotion
process is a real problem for me.
Alderman Christiansen asked Alderman Sayad if he could
interrupt him; he thinks they are confusing this with the
union contract; we should not be up here pleading for the
rank and file or the command association; we are here to
receive a completed document and vote on that; we are not
here to hash out this agreement; he thinks it is wrong
for them to be up there doing that.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that he agrees with Alderman
Christiansen.
Alderman Christiansen stated to Chairman Kisslinger that
the Board should be talking to the rank and file and when
everything is ironed out, then it should be given to the
City Council. Chairman Kisslinger stated that they tried
to do that on two (2) occasions; the first time nothing
happened and the second time a great number of police
officers were in attendance and expressed their concerns
to the Board.
Alderman Christiansen asked Chairman Kisslinger if the
union representatives knew about these meetings.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that the City Clerk published
the notices of both meetings and to his knowledge they
were distributed throughout City Hall.
Alderman Christiansen stated that if the union officials
were notified of these meetings, that is all the City has
to do; it is then up to the union representatives to
notify their members that it would be in their best
interest to attend these meetings.
BD. OF FIRE
& POLICE
(Cont'd.)
PAGE FOUR
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1/24/00
Alderman Christiansen stated that this is not a union
contract; these things are not negotiable; we are not
here giving and taking things; this is like the budget
for the Library; we can't change anything in this
document, that is up to the Board of Fire & Police
Commissioners.
Alderman Sayad stated that he had one more point to
discuss and that is regarding seniority; he has somewhat
of a problem with the Board taking away seniority points
just three (3) weeks before the tests are given; he
thinks that is wrong; the testing should be done with the
old rules and if the Board wants to change them for the
next testing period, they should do that.
Alderman Smith stated that Alderman Christiansen
basically said the same thing he said earlier -why are
we here?; Chairman Kisslinger has explained the changes
and the reasons why they were changed; why do we need to
discuss this any further?
Alderman Beauvais explained that this was a Committee of
the Whole and the floor must be opened for public
comment.
President Eric Suevel, Des Plaines Professional
Firefighters Association, addressed the Committee of the
Whole stating that the City Council tabled this matter
at their last meeting to March 6, 2000, and he agrees
that this should be tabled until then to give them time
to bring some things to the Board's attention.
Alderman Beauvais asked President Suevel if he was
speaking for all his members; is that the majority
opinion. He said yes; there are some outstanding issues
that need to be resolved.
Fire Chief Farinella stated that he was notified last
Friday that the only problem the Association had was with
the seniority points; the Officers Association notified
him on Friday that all their concerns were met , but this
morning he was told that they want this matter to stay
on the table.
President Bruce Kipley, Des Plaines Fire Command Officers
Association, addressed the Committee of the Whole stating
a majority of their members have been contacted and they
want this matter tabled until March 6, 2000, so that they
can get together and have a discussion with their whole
membership; they didn't know the demotion issue was
included and they have questions about that; they would
like to keep this matter tabled.
Firefighter Colin Carroll addressed the Committee of the
Whole stating that a sore point with him is the change
in the seniority points; that issue is unfair and
unequitable.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that this was not a "pick and
choose" situation; the Board has been considering these
issues for the past three (3) years; this is what the
Board thinks is best.
Firefighter Jim Brookman addressed the Committee of the
Whole stating that his Association has had no meeting to
discuss these changes; they never received a draft copy
of the final language; they were not aware that the
issues of demotion and seniority were on the table; they
thought they had until March 6, 2000 to meet and discuss
these issues; we only found out Friday that there was
going to be this meeting tonight so, again, we had no
time to have an Association meeting; to move forward
without a meeting is a disservice to the members.
BD. OF FIRE
AND POLICE
(Cont'd.)
PAGE FIVE
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1/24/00
Firefighter Brookman stated that he has been on the job
for 25 years and believes seniority does make a
difference--the seniority points should stay the way they
are now; he believes demotions is a very bad idea; we
have never asked for it; it would affect our pension; it
is unhealthy; it is bad for the Department; it is bad for
morale; he hopes this matter would be tabled.
President Greg Mall, Des Plaines Metropolitan Alliance
of Police -Chapter 240, addressed the Committee of the
Whole stating that they attended the meeting on January
10, 2000, where they expressed their concerns which were
pretty much over-ruled; no, he cannot speak for the whol e
membership, but he can speak for about 50% of them and
he can't find one individual who is in favor of this; we
would like to have a meeting to discuss these changes;
we would like to have this tabled; we never received the
exact definition of the changes.
Police Chief Sturlini stated that a notice was posted on
November 15, 1999 for the December 7, 1999 meeting; he
read from the Union newsletter dated December 3, 1999,
in which it was stated that there would be a meeting on
December 7, 1999; he then read from December 8th
newsletter stating that the changes were announced to the
officers; no one came in and asked for the exact
definition or asked for someone to explain them.
President Mall stated that they were not there to point
a finger at anyone; they would just like the opportunity
to present their concerns to the Board again.
Alderman Sayad stated that there has been a lack of
communication and he feels sure this will never happen
again; why don't we give everyone two (2) weeks to meet
and resolve their problems; let's put all of this behind
us and move forward.
Chairman Kisslinger stated that he would like the City
Council's concurrence and are basically in agreement with
what the Board has done.
Alderman Christiansen asked Chairman Kisslinger if the
Board was willing to make compromises or were these rules
set in stone. Chairman Kisslinger stated for the most
part there is nothing the Board would change.
Alderman Sayad stated that all that is being asked is
that the Board meet with these people; be open-minded and
listen to these people; that is all they are asking for.
Police Sgt. Richard Rozkuszka addressed the Committee of
the Whole stating that the meeting on January 10th was
very impersonal; the affects were not appropriate; lack
of communication is a big problem; our opinions should
be heard by the Board; he can't speak for everyone, but
he did speak to six (6) sergeants and they all asked that
the tests be put on hold.
Vice President Mike Aiardo, Des Plaines Metropolitan
Alliance of Police -Chapter 240, addressed the Committee
of the Whole stating he did not attend the December 7th
meeting but they did make every effort to get members at
the January 10th meeting, but the proposed changes were
already approved and in writing; we want what is best for
our Police Department; we would like to have an
opportunity to have a meeting and discuss these changes.
Acting Mayor Arredia stated that the hour was getting
late and the Committee should vote one way or the other
on this issue.
BD. OF FIRE
AND POLICE
(Cont'd.)
PAGE SIX
193
1/24 /00
President Jim Prandini, Des Plaines Police Command
Officers Association addressed the Committee of the Whole
stating that their biggest concern is demotion; they are
concerned about the interpretation of "just cause."
Alderman Christiansen stated that yes you do lose some
of that personal touch with a telephone conference and
not seeing the faces of the people there; if everyone was
there, there might have been a different outcome; we
should have only seen the final document.
Chairman Kisslinger said there must be approval tonight
in order to meet the testing dates set for early
February.
Moved by Sayad, seconded by Becker to recommend to the
City Council that the approval of the amendments to the
Rules & Regulations for the Board of Fire and Police
Commissioners be TABLED until February 22, 2000 , to give
the various unions time to meet with their members and
then meet with the Board of Fire and Police
Commissioners. Upon roll call, the vote was:
AYES: 3-Sayad, Becker, Petersen
NAYS: 4-Beauvais, Christiansen, Elstner, Smith
ABSENT: 1-Brookman
Motion declared failed.
Moved by Smith, seconded by Christiansen, to recommend
to the City Council to ratify and approve the amendments
to the Revised Rules & Regulations of the Board of Fire
and Police Commissioners.
Moved by Beauvais, seconded by Petersen, to call for a
five (5) minute recess. Motion declared carried.
The Committee of the Whole recessed at 10:07 p.m.
The Committee of the Whole reconvened at 10:14 p.m.
Moved by Beauvais, seconded by Becker, to adopt a
substitute motion to recommend to the City Council to ask
the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners if there is
going to be any level of compromise with the unions.
Alderman Christiansen stated that this whole issue is
being confused with a union contract; there is no
negotiation is this case; if the Board is not willing to
change any of these amendments, then we should go ahead
and vote on this tonight.
Alderman Beauvais stated that she does not want to vote
on this issue; we are the bad guys if we go against the
unions.
Alderman Christiansen stated that he agreed with Alderman
Beauvais; the unions should have attended the meeting;
minutes should have been distributed; dammed if we do and
dammed if we don't; this should have been all hammered
out before it came to the City Council.
Aldermen Beauvais and Becker withdrew their substitute
motion.
Moved by Smith, seconded by Petersen, to call for the
question. Upon roll call, the vote was:
AYES: 2-Smith, Petersen
NAYS: 5-Beauvais, Christiansen, Elstner,
Sayad, Becker
ABSENT: 1-Brookman
Motion declared failed.
BD. OF FIRE
AND POLICE
(Cont'd. )
RULES & REG.
AMENDMENTS/
BD. OF FIRE
AND POLICE:
Ordinance
M-2-00
EXECUTIVE
SESSION:
PAGE SEVEN
194
1/24/00
Alderman Sayad stated that all that the men are asking
for is the opportunity to sit down and talk; listen to
what they have to say; we owe it to them; there is blame
everywhere and a lack of communication.
Moved by Sayad, seconded by Becker, to adopt a substitute
motion and recommend to the City Council that the
amendments to the Rules & Regulations for the Board of
Fire and Police Commissioners be TABLED until February
7, 2000, to give the unions the opportunity to meet with
their members and discuss these changes and then meet
with the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners. Upon
roll call, the vote was:
AYES: 2-Sayad, Becker
NAYS: 5-Beauvais, Christiansen. Elstner,
Smith, Petersen
ABSENT: 1-Brookman
Motion declared failed.
Upon roll call on Alderman Smith's original motion, the
vote was:
AYES: 4-Christiansen, Elstner, Smith, Petersen
NAYS: 2-Sayad, Becker
PRESENT:l-Beauvais
ABSENT: 1-Brookman
Motion declared carried.
Acting Mayor Arredia stated that what happened tonight
is an example of a lack of communication; he recommends
that the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners does not
call a meeting until they know that everyone will be
there; and that when a meeting is called, the unions
notify their members and have the right people there.
ACTING MAYOR ARREDIA ASSUMED THE CHAIR AND DECLARED THE
CITY COUNCIL BACK IN SESSION
Moved by Smith, seconded by Elstner, to concur with
recommendation of Committee of the Whole to ratify and
approve the amendments to the Revised Rules & Regulations
of the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners, and place
on First Reading Ordinance M-2-00. Motion declared
carried. Aldermen Sayad and Becker voted no. Alderman
Beauvais voted present.
Moved by Smith, seconded by Elstner, to advance to Second
Reading and adopt Ordinance M-2-99, AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING
THE AMENDMENTS TO THE REVISED RULES AND REGULATIONS OF
THE BOARD OF FIRE & POLICE COMMISSIONERS. Upon roll
call, the vote was:
AYES: 6-Christiansen, Elstner, Becker,
Smith, Petersen, Arredia
NAYS: 1-Sayad
PRESENT:l-Beauvais
ABSENT: 1-Brookman
Motion declared carried.
Alderman Beauvais she voted present because she doesn't
feel the City Council should be voting on this issue; it
becomes political.
Moved by Sayad, seconded by Smith, to go into Executive
Session to discuss acquisition and setting price for sale
or lease of City property. Upon roll call, the vote was:
AYES: 7-Beauvais, Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad,
Becker, Smith, Petersen
NAYS: 0-None
ABSENT: 1-Brookman
Motion declared carried.
EXEC. SESS.
(Cont'd.)
SALE OR LEASE
OF CITY
PROPERTY/
841
GRACELAND:
ADJOURNMENT:
PAGE EIGHT
The City Council recessed at 10:50 p.m.
The City Council reconvened at 12:26 a.m .
195
1/24/00
Roll call indicated the following aldermen present:
Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad, Becker, Smith, Petersen .
Moved by Christiansen, seconded by Sayad, to concur with
consensus in Executive Session that Staff be authorized
to proceed as directed regarding acquisition and setting
price for sale or lease of City property at 841 Graceland
Avenue. Motion declared carried.
Moved by Elstner, seconded by Becker, that the SPECIAL
meeting of the City Council adjourn. Motion declared
carried. Meeting adjourned at 12:27 a.m.
CbL
Donna McAllister, CMC/AAE CITY CLERK
APPROVED BY ME THIS ~~~~~~~ c
y ~·.W -: Arredia, ACTING MAYOR