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01-24-2000 Special Meeting188 MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS HELD IN THE ELEANOR ROHRBACH MEMORIAL COUNCIL CHAMBERS, DES PLAINES CIVIC CENTER, MONDAY, JANUARY 24, 2000 CALL TO ORDER: The SPECIAL meeting of the City Council of the City of Des. ROLL CALL: Plaines, Illinois, was called to order by Acting Mayor Anthony W. Arredia at 7:10 p.m. in the Eleanor Rohrbach Memorial Council Chambers, Des Plaines Civic Center on Monday, January 24, 2000. Roll call Beauvais, Petersen. indicated the following aldermen present: Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad, Becker, Smith, Alderman Brookman was absent. Also present were: City Manager Douthwaite, City Attorney Wiltse, Fire Chief Farinella, Police Chief Sturlini and City Engineer Oakley; and Board of Fire and Police Commissioners Dan Kisslinger and Randy Johnson RULES AND REGULATIONS/ BD. OF FIRE & POLICE COMMISSION.: Item Tabled on 1/17/00 ACTING MAYOR ARREDIA DECLARED THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WAS NOW RESOLVED INTO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE LEGAL & LICENSING Alderman Beauvais, Chair Moved by Elstner, seconded by Smith, to take from the table the Rules & Regulations Amendments for the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners, which was tabled on January 17, 2000 to March 6, 2000. Alderman Sayad stated that he would be voting no on taking this matter from the table; he feels very strongly that because of the problems with communication, that this matter should be held until March 6, 2000, to give the proper notification to all parties; he takes this matter very seriously and we need more information; we are trying to change rules at the 11th hour ; we have to be fair to our employees; this action is out of order . Alderman Elstner asked what is the role of the City Council. City Attorney Wiltse stated that the City Council can ratify the Rules & Regulations of the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners that are consistent with State Statute, but the City Council has no authority to change these rules. Alderman Becker stated that it is his understanding that the Board is meeting down the hall making changes to the Rules & Regulations; he feels uncomfortable discussing something when he doesn't have all the information. Alderman Sayad stated that if the aldermen are not being given all the information, he wonders if the rank and file are being given all the information; he would like to see a corrected copy given to all the men so that they can have a meeting with their own people within a reasonable time and discuss it. Alderman Christiansen asked if the City Council had the right or authority to make any changes to these rules. City Attorney Wiltse said no as along as they are consistent with State Statute. BD. OF FIRE AND POLICE (Cont'd.) RECESS: PAGE TWO 189 1/24/00 Alderman Sayad questioned whether the rank and file were notified when the meetings of the Board on December 7, 1999 and January 10, 2000, were held. City Attorney Wiltse said yes and gave the process that was done for notification. Alderman Sayad stated that the aldermen agreed that this matter should be tabled to March 6, 2000 , and that i s when it should be discussed. Alderman Beauvais stated that there has been much mis- communication and no communication since she tabled this matter; all the aldermen agreed and then the next day she found out that the test would have to be postponed; she was asked to have this meeting tonight so that the tests could go forward; a majority of the aldermen wanted this meeting tonight, but she stated for the record that she doesn't think this matter should be in front of City Council at all; the Board has the authority to make the rules and regulations for the two departments; we cannot change anything; we have no voting power for changes . Alderman Smith stated that he agreed with Alderman Beauvais that the City Council should not be discussing this matter in any depth because the decision is not ours, but he does think it should be before the City Council to ratify any changes the Board makes; we have done it in the past. Motion declared carried on Alderman Elstner's motion. Alderman Sayad voted no and asked that the record show his no vote was because he feels the matter was tabled to March 6, 2000, and that is when it should be discussed so that proper notification could be given to everyone. Alderman Becker stated that his yes vote was so that there could be full discussion; he has a lot of questions. Moved by Christiansen, seconded by Beauvais , that there be a five (5) minute recess. Motion declared carried. The Committee of the Whole recessed at 7:30 p.m. The Committee of the Whole reconvened at 7:42 p.m. Chairman Dan Kisslinger of the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners introduced Commissioner Randy Johnson, and stated that the other commissioner, Eldon Burk, was out of town. Chairman Kisslinger stated that they did give adequate notice of their meetings; they are not rushing things; these changes have been in the works--being formulated , for the past three (3) years; every three (3) years the rules are reviewed and modified if necessary. Chairman Kisslinger stated that there was a very light turn out for their meeting on December 7, 2 o o O; a variety of subjects were discussed; the two (2) employees that were present did not come up with anything to modify any of proposed changes. Chairman Kisslinger stated that one of the things discussed was the point system of 100: 50 points for the written examination; 15 points for the respective Chief's recommendation; 25 points for the Commissioners' recommendation and 10 points for seniority. Chairman Kisslinger stated that the Board does not know the bulk of the department people and prefer not to, since they have to evaluate these people; why should the Board, who do not know these people (and don't want to) have more points than the respective Chiefs who do. BD. OF FIRE AND POLICE (Cont'd.) 190 1/24/00 PAGE THREE Chairman Kisslinger stated that the Board revised the points to give 50 points for the written examination; 22 points for the respective Chief's recommendation; 22 points for the Commissioners' recommendation and 6 points for seniority. Chairman Kisslinger stated that Commissioner Burk recommended to give an employee the option of going back one permanent grade if he or she finds that they cannot do the job for whatever reason, rather than get fired ; the Board would prefer not to fire anyone . The Board has been told that this doesn't set well with certain peopl e ; this can affect their pension rights , pension dollars . Chairman Kisslinger stated that Board also changed the passing grade from 75 to 70, to allow more applicants to be considered; the smartest candidate is not always the best candidate; however, if they do not pass at the 70 grade, it would be the end of their promotional possibilities for that cycle. Chairman Kisslinger went through the Rules and Regulations page by page and pointed out the changes. Alderman Sayad stated that he thinks more points should be taken away from the Board. Commissioner Johnson stated that the oral testing is much more involved than it used to be which includes outside testing agencies ; the Chiefs' need more points to get the right people that they would be working with . Alderman Sayad stated that all the officers should be evaluated at the end of every year and then gone over with the officer; those reports should have value; if someone has a problem, they should not be demoted; he thinks that would be an injustice; the yearly evaluation should merit some points. Alderman Sayad asked why these changes are necessary; is something broken; this demotion process is a real problem for me. Alderman Christiansen asked Alderman Sayad if he could interrupt him; he thinks they are confusing this with the union contract; we should not be up here pleading for the rank and file or the command association; we are here to receive a completed document and vote on that; we are not here to hash out this agreement; he thinks it is wrong for them to be up there doing that. Chairman Kisslinger stated that he agrees with Alderman Christiansen. Alderman Christiansen stated to Chairman Kisslinger that the Board should be talking to the rank and file and when everything is ironed out, then it should be given to the City Council. Chairman Kisslinger stated that they tried to do that on two (2) occasions; the first time nothing happened and the second time a great number of police officers were in attendance and expressed their concerns to the Board. Alderman Christiansen asked Chairman Kisslinger if the union representatives knew about these meetings. Chairman Kisslinger stated that the City Clerk published the notices of both meetings and to his knowledge they were distributed throughout City Hall. Alderman Christiansen stated that if the union officials were notified of these meetings, that is all the City has to do; it is then up to the union representatives to notify their members that it would be in their best interest to attend these meetings. BD. OF FIRE & POLICE (Cont'd.) PAGE FOUR 191 1/24/00 Alderman Christiansen stated that this is not a union contract; these things are not negotiable; we are not here giving and taking things; this is like the budget for the Library; we can't change anything in this document, that is up to the Board of Fire & Police Commissioners. Alderman Sayad stated that he had one more point to discuss and that is regarding seniority; he has somewhat of a problem with the Board taking away seniority points just three (3) weeks before the tests are given; he thinks that is wrong; the testing should be done with the old rules and if the Board wants to change them for the next testing period, they should do that. Alderman Smith stated that Alderman Christiansen basically said the same thing he said earlier -why are we here?; Chairman Kisslinger has explained the changes and the reasons why they were changed; why do we need to discuss this any further? Alderman Beauvais explained that this was a Committee of the Whole and the floor must be opened for public comment. President Eric Suevel, Des Plaines Professional Firefighters Association, addressed the Committee of the Whole stating that the City Council tabled this matter at their last meeting to March 6, 2000, and he agrees that this should be tabled until then to give them time to bring some things to the Board's attention. Alderman Beauvais asked President Suevel if he was speaking for all his members; is that the majority opinion. He said yes; there are some outstanding issues that need to be resolved. Fire Chief Farinella stated that he was notified last Friday that the only problem the Association had was with the seniority points; the Officers Association notified him on Friday that all their concerns were met , but this morning he was told that they want this matter to stay on the table. President Bruce Kipley, Des Plaines Fire Command Officers Association, addressed the Committee of the Whole stating a majority of their members have been contacted and they want this matter tabled until March 6, 2000, so that they can get together and have a discussion with their whole membership; they didn't know the demotion issue was included and they have questions about that; they would like to keep this matter tabled. Firefighter Colin Carroll addressed the Committee of the Whole stating that a sore point with him is the change in the seniority points; that issue is unfair and unequitable. Chairman Kisslinger stated that this was not a "pick and choose" situation; the Board has been considering these issues for the past three (3) years; this is what the Board thinks is best. Firefighter Jim Brookman addressed the Committee of the Whole stating that his Association has had no meeting to discuss these changes; they never received a draft copy of the final language; they were not aware that the issues of demotion and seniority were on the table; they thought they had until March 6, 2000 to meet and discuss these issues; we only found out Friday that there was going to be this meeting tonight so, again, we had no time to have an Association meeting; to move forward without a meeting is a disservice to the members. BD. OF FIRE AND POLICE (Cont'd.) PAGE FIVE 192 1/24/00 Firefighter Brookman stated that he has been on the job for 25 years and believes seniority does make a difference--the seniority points should stay the way they are now; he believes demotions is a very bad idea; we have never asked for it; it would affect our pension; it is unhealthy; it is bad for the Department; it is bad for morale; he hopes this matter would be tabled. President Greg Mall, Des Plaines Metropolitan Alliance of Police -Chapter 240, addressed the Committee of the Whole stating that they attended the meeting on January 10, 2000, where they expressed their concerns which were pretty much over-ruled; no, he cannot speak for the whol e membership, but he can speak for about 50% of them and he can't find one individual who is in favor of this; we would like to have a meeting to discuss these changes; we would like to have this tabled; we never received the exact definition of the changes. Police Chief Sturlini stated that a notice was posted on November 15, 1999 for the December 7, 1999 meeting; he read from the Union newsletter dated December 3, 1999, in which it was stated that there would be a meeting on December 7, 1999; he then read from December 8th newsletter stating that the changes were announced to the officers; no one came in and asked for the exact definition or asked for someone to explain them. President Mall stated that they were not there to point a finger at anyone; they would just like the opportunity to present their concerns to the Board again. Alderman Sayad stated that there has been a lack of communication and he feels sure this will never happen again; why don't we give everyone two (2) weeks to meet and resolve their problems; let's put all of this behind us and move forward. Chairman Kisslinger stated that he would like the City Council's concurrence and are basically in agreement with what the Board has done. Alderman Christiansen asked Chairman Kisslinger if the Board was willing to make compromises or were these rules set in stone. Chairman Kisslinger stated for the most part there is nothing the Board would change. Alderman Sayad stated that all that is being asked is that the Board meet with these people; be open-minded and listen to these people; that is all they are asking for. Police Sgt. Richard Rozkuszka addressed the Committee of the Whole stating that the meeting on January 10th was very impersonal; the affects were not appropriate; lack of communication is a big problem; our opinions should be heard by the Board; he can't speak for everyone, but he did speak to six (6) sergeants and they all asked that the tests be put on hold. Vice President Mike Aiardo, Des Plaines Metropolitan Alliance of Police -Chapter 240, addressed the Committee of the Whole stating he did not attend the December 7th meeting but they did make every effort to get members at the January 10th meeting, but the proposed changes were already approved and in writing; we want what is best for our Police Department; we would like to have an opportunity to have a meeting and discuss these changes. Acting Mayor Arredia stated that the hour was getting late and the Committee should vote one way or the other on this issue. BD. OF FIRE AND POLICE (Cont'd.) PAGE SIX 193 1/24 /00 President Jim Prandini, Des Plaines Police Command Officers Association addressed the Committee of the Whole stating that their biggest concern is demotion; they are concerned about the interpretation of "just cause." Alderman Christiansen stated that yes you do lose some of that personal touch with a telephone conference and not seeing the faces of the people there; if everyone was there, there might have been a different outcome; we should have only seen the final document. Chairman Kisslinger said there must be approval tonight in order to meet the testing dates set for early February. Moved by Sayad, seconded by Becker to recommend to the City Council that the approval of the amendments to the Rules & Regulations for the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners be TABLED until February 22, 2000 , to give the various unions time to meet with their members and then meet with the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners. Upon roll call, the vote was: AYES: 3-Sayad, Becker, Petersen NAYS: 4-Beauvais, Christiansen, Elstner, Smith ABSENT: 1-Brookman Motion declared failed. Moved by Smith, seconded by Christiansen, to recommend to the City Council to ratify and approve the amendments to the Revised Rules & Regulations of the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners. Moved by Beauvais, seconded by Petersen, to call for a five (5) minute recess. Motion declared carried. The Committee of the Whole recessed at 10:07 p.m. The Committee of the Whole reconvened at 10:14 p.m. Moved by Beauvais, seconded by Becker, to adopt a substitute motion to recommend to the City Council to ask the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners if there is going to be any level of compromise with the unions. Alderman Christiansen stated that this whole issue is being confused with a union contract; there is no negotiation is this case; if the Board is not willing to change any of these amendments, then we should go ahead and vote on this tonight. Alderman Beauvais stated that she does not want to vote on this issue; we are the bad guys if we go against the unions. Alderman Christiansen stated that he agreed with Alderman Beauvais; the unions should have attended the meeting; minutes should have been distributed; dammed if we do and dammed if we don't; this should have been all hammered out before it came to the City Council. Aldermen Beauvais and Becker withdrew their substitute motion. Moved by Smith, seconded by Petersen, to call for the question. Upon roll call, the vote was: AYES: 2-Smith, Petersen NAYS: 5-Beauvais, Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad, Becker ABSENT: 1-Brookman Motion declared failed. BD. OF FIRE AND POLICE (Cont'd. ) RULES & REG. AMENDMENTS/ BD. OF FIRE AND POLICE: Ordinance M-2-00 EXECUTIVE SESSION: PAGE SEVEN 194 1/24/00 Alderman Sayad stated that all that the men are asking for is the opportunity to sit down and talk; listen to what they have to say; we owe it to them; there is blame everywhere and a lack of communication. Moved by Sayad, seconded by Becker, to adopt a substitute motion and recommend to the City Council that the amendments to the Rules & Regulations for the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners be TABLED until February 7, 2000, to give the unions the opportunity to meet with their members and discuss these changes and then meet with the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners. Upon roll call, the vote was: AYES: 2-Sayad, Becker NAYS: 5-Beauvais, Christiansen. Elstner, Smith, Petersen ABSENT: 1-Brookman Motion declared failed. Upon roll call on Alderman Smith's original motion, the vote was: AYES: 4-Christiansen, Elstner, Smith, Petersen NAYS: 2-Sayad, Becker PRESENT:l-Beauvais ABSENT: 1-Brookman Motion declared carried. Acting Mayor Arredia stated that what happened tonight is an example of a lack of communication; he recommends that the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners does not call a meeting until they know that everyone will be there; and that when a meeting is called, the unions notify their members and have the right people there. ACTING MAYOR ARREDIA ASSUMED THE CHAIR AND DECLARED THE CITY COUNCIL BACK IN SESSION Moved by Smith, seconded by Elstner, to concur with recommendation of Committee of the Whole to ratify and approve the amendments to the Revised Rules & Regulations of the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners, and place on First Reading Ordinance M-2-00. Motion declared carried. Aldermen Sayad and Becker voted no. Alderman Beauvais voted present. Moved by Smith, seconded by Elstner, to advance to Second Reading and adopt Ordinance M-2-99, AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING THE AMENDMENTS TO THE REVISED RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE BOARD OF FIRE & POLICE COMMISSIONERS. Upon roll call, the vote was: AYES: 6-Christiansen, Elstner, Becker, Smith, Petersen, Arredia NAYS: 1-Sayad PRESENT:l-Beauvais ABSENT: 1-Brookman Motion declared carried. Alderman Beauvais she voted present because she doesn't feel the City Council should be voting on this issue; it becomes political. Moved by Sayad, seconded by Smith, to go into Executive Session to discuss acquisition and setting price for sale or lease of City property. Upon roll call, the vote was: AYES: 7-Beauvais, Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad, Becker, Smith, Petersen NAYS: 0-None ABSENT: 1-Brookman Motion declared carried. EXEC. SESS. (Cont'd.) SALE OR LEASE OF CITY PROPERTY/ 841 GRACELAND: ADJOURNMENT: PAGE EIGHT The City Council recessed at 10:50 p.m. The City Council reconvened at 12:26 a.m . 195 1/24/00 Roll call indicated the following aldermen present: Christiansen, Elstner, Sayad, Becker, Smith, Petersen . Moved by Christiansen, seconded by Sayad, to concur with consensus in Executive Session that Staff be authorized to proceed as directed regarding acquisition and setting price for sale or lease of City property at 841 Graceland Avenue. Motion declared carried. Moved by Elstner, seconded by Becker, that the SPECIAL meeting of the City Council adjourn. Motion declared carried. Meeting adjourned at 12:27 a.m. CbL Donna McAllister, CMC/AAE CITY CLERK APPROVED BY ME THIS ~~~~~~~ c y ~·.W -: Arredia, ACTING MAYOR